IN CONVERSATION

Shame can make you feel like you are the problem—when often it’s a protective response shaped by trauma, attachment, and social conditioning. In this episode of The Energy Fix, I’m joined by Jessica Fern and David Cooley to unpack the shame triangle (inner critic → shame → escaping strategies), the difference between guilt vs. shame, and how parts work / Internal Family Systems (IFS) can help you heal without forcing or bypassing. If you’ve been stuck in patterns like people-pleasing, shutdown, overexplaining, perfectionism, or emotional spirals, this conversation offers language, insight, and gentle next steps rooted in nervous system regulation and self-compassion. For more shownotes: https://www.tansyrodgers.com/podcast/shame-trauma-parts-work-jessica-fern-david-cooley Disclaimer For educational and entertainment purposes only. This is not medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Please consult a qualified provider for individual support. If this helped: 👍 Like the video 📝 Comment: What tends to show up first for you—inner critic, shutdown, people-pleasing, or overexplaining? 🔔 Subscribe to The Energy Fix for weekly conversations on energy, healing, nervous system support, and becoming more you. What You'll Learn: •Guilt vs. shame: behavior vs. identity (and why that matters for healing) •The shame triangle: inner critic, shame, and “escapers” •How shame shows up in relationships, conflict, and connection •Why attachment shapes our shame patterns (and our capacity to receive love) •The role of social constructs in shame and self-perception •How IFS / parts work helps you dialogue with inner states and strategies •Why there are no bad parts—just parts trying to protect you •Nervous system regulation as the foundation for trauma healing •Gentle approaches that support real change (without forcing or bypassing) Chapters: 07:01 Personal Journeys and Influences 12:25 Understanding the Shame Triangle 18:02 Cues and Signs of Shame 22:11 Shame vs. Guilt: Understanding the Difference 29:30 The Role of Attachment in Shame 33:33 Social Constructs and Shame 39:01 Navigating Relationships and Shame 41:24 Dialoguing with Parts 44:16 Understanding Inner States and Strategies 51:18 Parts in Internal Family Systems (IFS) 57:48 Drama Triangle + Shame Patterns 1:02:11 Gentle Approaches to Trauma and Shame 1:09:02 The Role of Self in Healing Shame 1:16:47 Starting the Journey of Self-Transformation Meet the Guest: Jessica Fern & David Cooley Jessica Fern holds a Master’s degree in Conflict Resolution, is a Certified Clinical Trauma Professional, a trained Internal Family Systems (IFS) practitioner, and an integrative therapist drawing on 25 years of experience in somatic, narrative, psychotherapeutic, and spiritual healing modalities. She is the internationally recognized author of Polysecure, Polywise and her newest book Transforming the Shame Triangle. Through her international private practice, Jessica works with individuals, couples, and multi-partner relationships to break free from reactive patterns, cultural conditioning, insecure attachment, and past trauma—empowering them to embody new possibilities in life and love. Learn more at JessicaFern.com. David Cooley is a professional Restorative Justice facilitator, diversity and privilege awareness trainer, and bilingual cultural broker. He is the creator of the Restorative Relationship Conversations model, a process that transforms interpersonal conflict into deeper connection, intimacy and repair. In his private practice, David specializes in working with non-monogamous and LGBTQ partnerships, incorporating a variety of modalities including trauma-informed care, attachment theory, somatic practices, narrative theory, and mindfulness-based techniques. Links Mentioned In The Show: Get the book! Transforming The Shame Triangle: https://a.co/d/0hsAga3J www.jessicafern.com www.restorativerelationship.com About Tansy (host): 💫 Crystal Reiki Energy Healer & Certified Crystal Practitioner 💍 Therapeutic, Handmade Crystal Jewelry Designer 🌱 Functional Nutritional Therapy Practitioner ✨ Health & Lifestyle Coach | 👣 Physical Therapist Assistant Helping women & ADHD brains avoid burnout—so life feels juicy again! Work with me & shop: • Crystal Reiki & Intuitive Healing: https://www.tansyrodgers.com/crystalreiki • Reiki-infused therapeutic crystal jewelry: https://www.beucrystals.com • Website: https://www.tansyrodgers.com Special Offer 💝 Leave a positive podcast review and get 15% off a distance energy healing session or a piece of jewelry. Email a screenshot to info@tansyrodgers.com Search Keywords shame triangle, shame and guilt, trauma healing, nervous system regulation, internal family systems, IFS parts work, attachment theory, emotional healing, shame in relationships, inner critic, self compassion, trauma recovery, drama triangle, personal growth, mental health healing, self transformation, Jessica Fern, David Cooley, The Energy Fix Podcast

Shame is something most of us carry but few of us talk about openly. It can show up in response to that inner voice telling you you're too much or not enough, as the impulse to hide parts of yourself, or as patterns in relationships that leave you feeling disconnected. Yet despite how common shame is, finding effective ways to work with it remains elusive for many people.  In their latest book, Transforming the Shame Triangle: From Shame to Love Using Parts Work, 𝐉𝐞𝐬𝐬𝐢𝐜𝐚 𝐅𝐞𝐫𝐧 and 𝐃𝐚𝐯𝐢𝐝 𝐂𝐨𝐨𝐥𝐞𝐲 offer a fresh framework that uses parts work to help us see that shame is part of an internal “Drama Triangle” that they call “The Shame Triangle” and they present a groundbreaking system, integrating IFS with other modalities, to transform shame into Self-Love. When I saw that, I knew I needed to interview them to share these tools with more people. :)  What makes their approach particularly valuable is the practical integration of parts work, giving us concrete tools rather than abstract concepts. They share some of these tools in our interview.  Here’s what we covered in this groundbreaking interview:  What is parts work in the IFS context? What is the Shame Triangle & what is its destructive impact? How do we heal Shame at its roots—not just manage it? How do we transform the Shame Triangle into the self-Love Triangle? What does integrating the Self-Love Triangle as a new way of living look like? How have these tools helped you and your clients tangibly experience more love, creativity, and resourcefulness in all relationships?  If you’re someone who has felt the weight of shame and wondered how to move through it, this interview meets you where you are. The authors bring both professional expertise and genuine warmth to a topic that too often gets treated with clinical distance or, worse, more shame. You can get their book, "𝐓𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐬𝐟𝐨𝐫𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐒𝐡𝐚𝐦𝐞 𝐓𝐫𝐢𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐥𝐞" here: https://amzn.to/4a5mEQE Jessica and David are teaching an 𝟖-𝐰𝐞𝐞𝐤 𝐨𝐧𝐥𝐢𝐧𝐞 𝐜𝐨𝐮𝐫𝐬𝐞to help you integrate and deepen the work in their book. It launches at the end of February of 2026. You can learn more about that here: https://the-azurite-way.mykajabi.com/transforming-the-shame-triangle-feb-2026 Here are their other books: "Polysecure" by Jessica Fern: https://amzn.to/4bzCSnC "Polywise" By Jessica Fern and David Cooley: https://amzn.to/3LLJpRG _______________________ You can download my 𝐟𝐫𝐞𝐞 𝐞-𝐠𝐮𝐢𝐝𝐞 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐰𝐨𝐦𝐞𝐧 𝐢𝐧 𝐚 𝐫𝐞𝐥𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧𝐬𝐡𝐢𝐩, "Man-ifest Lasting Love: How to Easily Inspire Him to Fulfill Your Deepest Desires" here: https://www.coachvaleriegreene.com/eguide Download my 𝐟𝐫𝐞𝐞 𝐞-𝐠𝐮𝐢𝐝𝐞 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐬𝐢𝐧𝐠𝐥𝐞 𝐰𝐨𝐦𝐞𝐧, "The Magnetic Dating Formula" here: https://www.coachvaleriegreene.com/single Apply for a 𝐅𝐑𝐄𝐄 "𝐁𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐤𝐭𝐡𝐫𝐨𝐮𝐠𝐡 𝐓𝐨 𝐋𝐚𝐬𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐋𝐨𝐯𝐞" personal coaching 𝐬𝐞𝐬𝐬𝐢𝐨𝐧 with me here: https://www.coachvaleriegreene.com/free-Strategy-Session Here's where you can find my 232 page 𝐞𝐁𝐨𝐨𝐤, "The Commitment Roadmap": https://www.coachvaleriegreene.com/commitment Check out my Soul-Shaking Love Podcast here: https://www.coachvaleriegreene.com/podcast

In this episode, Ryan Watts sits down with Jessica Fern and David Cooley to explore a question most people avoid until it starts costing them… What if shame is not the problem…what if it’s the map? Together, they unpack their book Transforming the Shame Triangle…From Shame to Love Using Parts Work and break down a practical framework rooted in Internal Family Systems (IFS) that helps you understand what’s happening inside you when you spiral, shut down, overwork, people please, avoid, or attack yourself. You’ll learn the Shame Triangle as a living inner system… Inner Critic… the voice that judges Shame Part… the part that collapses and believes it Escapists… the strategies that try to outrun it (over functioning, under functioning, aggression, anxiety, numbing) Then the shift…how those parts can transform into what they call the Self Love Triangle… Inner Coach… still high standards, different strategy Inner Nurturer… turning toward instead of escaping Self energy… the grounded state that makes real healing stick This is also a relationship episode…because the deepest insight here is simple… You are wired for connection…yet many of us were socialized for disconnection and conflict. If you’ve ever thought “I know this isn’t true…but it feels true”…this conversation will give you language, clarity, and a path forward. Key themes you’ll hear in this episode Emotional safety vs emotional comfort Why impact is normal…and how to take accountability without self destruction How shame becomes invisible through productivity, perfectionism, and achievement Why “getting rid of parts” backfires…and what to do instead How shame can be inherited through legacy burdens…and shaped by larger social power structures Explore Jessica and David’s work: The Azurite Way website…https://www.theazuriteway.com Course launch page…https://the-azurite-way.mykajabi.com/transforming-the-shame-triangle-feb-2026 Jessica Fern…https://www.jessicafern.com David Cooley…https://www.restorativerelationship.com Subscribe for podcast notifications ryanwattslifecoaching.com/podcast Want support applying this to your own life Free 30 Minute Coaching Session…ryanwattslifecoaching.com/schedule #ShameHealing #ShameTriangle #TransformingTheShameTriangle #InternalFamilySystems #IFStherapy #PartsWork #InnerCritic #SelfEnergy #SelfLeadership #EmotionalHealing #TraumaHealing #RelationalHealing #AttachmentTheory #EmotionalSafety #NervousSystemRegulation #ConflictResolution #RestorativeJustice #RelationshipGrowth #ConsciousRelationships #PersonalGrowth #SelfDevelopment #InnerWork #PsychologyPodcast #MentalHealthAwareness #HealingJourney #OvercomingShame #SelfCompassion #InnerCoach #EmotionalIntelligence #SecureAttachment #PersonalSuccess #LeadershipDevelopment #AuthenticLiving #RaiseYourConsciousness #ConsciousLiving #MindsetShift #HealingTrauma #RelationshipRepair #BreakTheCycle #InterpersonalGrowth #SelfAwareness #EmotionalResilience #AnxietyHealing #ADHDAwareness #GenerationalHealing #LegacyBurdens #CoachingTools #TherapyTools #DeepConversations #ThePersonalSuccessPodcast

In this episode of the Always Better Than Yesterday Podcast, host Ryan Hartley sits down with psychotherapist and author Jessica Fern, alongside restorative justice facilitator David Cooley. Together, they explore the core ideas behind their book Transforming the Shame Triangle, unpacking how shame is formed, how it operates internally, and how it shapes our relationships, leadership, and sense of self. Drawing on Internal Family Systems (IFS), attachment theory and restorative practices, Jessica and David introduce the concept of the Shame Triangle — a powerful framework that explains the internal dynamics many of us experience daily. Through this conversation, they reveal how our inner critic, shame responses, and coping strategies are not flaws, but adaptive parts shaped by our upbringing, culture and lived experiences. The conversation explores the power of: • Understanding the inner critic, shame and escape patterns • Transforming internal conflict into self-leadership • Moving from adversarial thinking to restorative thinking • Nervous system awareness and emotional regulation • Building relationships rooted in safety, honesty and repair At its heart, this episode is about moving from survival patterns into authentic living — transforming shame into self-awareness, compassion and connection. About Transforming the Shame Triangle Transforming the Shame Triangle introduces a practical framework for understanding and healing internal shame patterns. The model identifies three key internal dynamics: • The Inner Critic (judgement and attack) • The Shame Part (internalised unworthiness) • The Escapers (coping and avoidance strategies) The work guides people toward transformation into a Self-Love Triangle, where: • The inner critic becomes an inner coach • Shame softens into authentic experience • Escapers become inner nurturers The goal is to help individuals: • Break repetitive emotional patterns • Develop self-awareness and compassion • Improve relationships and communication • Lead themselves and others more effectively Those with ears, let them hear. Always love, Ryan Connect with Jessica & David Jessica Fern: https://jessicafern.com David Cooley: https://www.restorativeconversations.com Connect with Always Better Than Yesterday Website: https://abty.co.uk/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alwaysbetterthanyesterdayuk/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/abty/ Men’s Group (Akira): https://abty.co.uk/akira Join our mailing list: https://abty.co.uk/contact Sign up for coaching: https://abty.co.uk/coaching Please email questions and reflections to: podcast@abty.co.uk Chapters: 00:00 – Introduction and guest overview 02:00 – What is restorative justice in relationships 05:00 – Introducing the Shame Triangle 08:00 – Inner critic, shame and escapers explained 12:00 – Social conditioning and shame 16:00 – Shame in relationships and conflict 20:00 – Transforming shame into self-love 23:00 – Conditional vs unconditional love 26:00 – Attachment and relational safety 30:00 – Leadership and self-leadership 34:00 – Speaking from parts vs for parts 38:00 – Collective division and binary thinking 42:00 – Building shame-free leadership cultures 45:00 – Healing, practices and nervous system work 49:00 – Generational shame and inheritance 52:00 – Heartprint and legacy #AlwaysBetterThanYesterday #RyanHartley #JessicaFern #DavidCooley #ShameTriangle #SelfLeadership #EmotionalHealing #RelationalIntelligence #PersonalGrowth #ConsciousLeadership

This is a video from our Better Relations Summit with the amazing Jessica Fern https://www.jessicafern.com/ about Attachment Trauma and Relationships: The core focus is on exploring how attachment trauma affects our capacity for healthy relationships. 👇👇👇 Come to our next retreats! Rise in Love - Couple Retreat: https://xperienceblixx.com/couples-retreat/ BliXX Level 1- Individual Retreat: https://xperienceblixx.com/retreat/ WEBSITE & SOCIAL MEDIA-----------------📲📲📲 https://www.instagram.com/xperience_blixx https://xperienceblixx.com/ WHAT IS BLIXX? -----------------🤷‍♂️ BliXX is an educational brand and community dedicated to personal growth through conscious sexuality, with a focus on conscious kink. Founded in 2018, BliXX was created with the vision of establishing sex-positive spaces that go beyond traditional practices. Our events welcome both the light and tender aspects of intimacy as well as the darker, more forbidden elements, all explored within a safe, ritualistic, and conscious environment. In these spaces, we encourage real-life applications of conscious power exchanges, consent, boundaries, desires, and vulnerability. These are not just theoretical concepts but lived experiences that foster integration and embodiment. Since our inception, BliXX has impacted over 1,000 individuals through our experiences and retreats worldwide. Our mission is to help people transform shame and societal conditioning into wilderness, freedom, authenticity, love, and power. The depth and transformative power of our spaces have grown exponentially over the years. BliXX focuses on deep transformational work, offering longer-term engagement through one-on-one online coaching packages and week-long retreats for individuals and couples. #BliXX #Intimacy #Kink #Therapy #Retreats #Couples #Relationship #PersonalGrowth

John & Jackie interview Jessica Fern, a psychotherapist, public speaker, and expert on trauma and relationships. Jessica talks about her book, Polysecure, which is designed to help individuals, couples, and people in multi-partner relationships move beyond their reactive patterns, cultural conditioning, insecure attachment styles, and past traumas, while embracing new possibilities in life and love. They talk about different relationship styles for different people and relationships and provide practical tips for being more open and vulnerable in relationships. Overall, this episode is a valuable resource for anyone interested in better understanding themselves and their attachment styles, regardless of their relationship model. To learn more about open relationships and the swinger lifestyle, visit https://openlove101.com Polysecure: https://amzn.to/3yA22Ob (New) Polysecure Workbook: https://amzn.to/3FrsoWj

In this episode we explore: - What the shame triangle is and how it shapes the way people experience themselves and their relationships - The difference between the inner critic, the shame part, and the protective escape strategies that follow - Why shame is often one of the biggest obstacles to healing, accountability, and repair - How perfectionism, people-pleasing, shutdown, projection, and conflict avoidance can all be protective responses - The connection between shame, anger, attachment wounds, and nervous system dysregulation - What self-energy is and why it is so essential in healing relational patterns - How the shame triangle can begin to transform into self-love, inner coaching, and deeper internal safety We talk about how shame quietly drives so many of the patterns people struggle with in relationships, from defensiveness and reactivity to collapse, avoidance, and disconnection, and how learning to relate to these patterns with more awareness, compassion, and curiosity can create real transformation. This conversation is an invitation to understand the parts of you that formed in response to pain, reconnect with the deeper wisdom of your system, and begin creating more presence, repair, and authentic connection in your relationships. About Jessica Fern: Jessica Fern is a certified clinical trauma professional, trained Internal Family Systems practitioner, and the internationally recognized author of Polysecure, Polywise, and Transforming the Shame Triangle, which she co-wrote with David Cooley. Her work helps individuals, couples, and multi-partner relationships break free from reactive patterns, insecure attachment, cultural conditioning, and past trauma so they can embody new possibilities in life and love. About David Cooley: David Cooley is a professional restorative justice facilitator, diversity and privilege awareness trainer, bilingual cultural broker, and the creator of the Restorative Relationship Conversations model. In his private practice, he specializes in working with non-monogamous and LGBTQ partnerships, integrating trauma-informed care, attachment theory, somatic practices, narrative therapy, and mindfulness-based techniques to support deeper connection, intimacy, and repair. Connect with Jessica https://jessicafern.com/ https://www.instagram.com/jessicafern411/ Connect with David https://restorativerelationship.com/ https://www.instagram.com/rrconversations/ Learn more about The Azurite Way https://www.instagram.com/azuriteway/ https://www.theazuriteway.com/ Connect with Lindsey https://www.lindseybournecoaching.com/ https://www.instagram.com/lindseybournecoaching/ Free consultation (for couples & individuals): https://calendly.com/lbourne2/discovery-call?back=1&month=2025-07 Free guide, Breaking the Pattern: https://www.lindseybournecoaching.com/breaking-the-cycle If this episode resonated, subscribe, and/or leave a comment/like to help the video reach more listeners!

Trauma, attachment wounds and external criticism can leave us battling a sense of shame and inadequacy that can keep us from thriving personally and in relationships. In their new book, Transforming the Shame Triangle, integrative therapist Jessica Fern and restorative justice facilitator David Cooley use a synthesis of Internal Family Systems and Narrative Process to identify the three parts that they identify as the greatest barriers to achieving the life we want. Join their conversation with Thornapple Press publisher Eve Rickert, in which they will discuss the three parts of the Shame Triangle and practical strategies to open a path to healing and transformation. Find out more and order your copy of the book at https://thornapplepress.ca/books/transforming-the-shame-triangle